>> brenda: and kyle, are you a bull or bear. >> i'm a bear, stay away. i like the equity markets. >> brenda: you know what you've absolutely got to like? neil cavuto. cavuto on business. ♪ >> all right, forget about the festival cliff that's coming. how about a fiscal crisis that's already here? hi, everyone, i'm neil cavuto on fox on top of getting on top of a 16 trillion dollar monster. it's something republican vice-president nominee, paul ryan, is pitching. why did he end up ditching the president's own debt commission? it's something i asked him this week. >> well, you mentioned bowles simpson, sir, and you voted against that. >> i like that part of bowles simpson, but you talked a good game, but you don't deliver the goods. what do you-- >> no, here is what people do. if you don't like the plan

that someone's put on the table. put your plan on the table and pass that budget through congress, and mitt romney offered a plan, president obama hasn't done any of that. he disavowed bowles simpson and offered all the it i haves -- alternative plans. the even bowles simpson, it didn't address the primary driver of our debt. health care programs. starting going bankrupt. i don't want a pass a bill to fix the fiscal crisis when i know it doesn't fix the fiscal crisis. >> neil: he's saying it didn't go far enough. charles payne, ben stein, dagen mcdowell and adam lashinsky and charlie gasperino. >> i think it was a good place to start, to ryan's point, it was with respect to social security or medical spending, you know, and the ideal spending cap. if we adhere to spending caps we wouldn't be in this position in the first place, so i take his point although i

think it would have been a good starting point for everyone to say, okay, let's start with this and then go from there. ben stein? >> we've gotten ourselves into a such a deep hole and everyone wants to avoid tax, tax, tax, we can't. yes, they've got it cut it, and going to have to do financials, we don't want to do it, we've got to. >> neil: i'd like to disagree with that, but (laughter) >> mr. gasperino? >> and we don't have to raise taxes right now. it'd be a dumb thing to raise taxes, in the middle it looks like we're headed to a double dip recession. >> neil: you think that. >> you look at the numbers and the business round table and look at the latest gdp numbers and consumer spending and i don't criticize ben bernanke for doing what he did with qe three, primarily the numbers look bad-- >> of aalways been in the-- >> and i tell you, never criticized, one you've never

criticized. >> neil, neil, this is the only thing left. if you don't have-- >> come on, i think you doth protest too much. dagen. >> i think what ryan says does ring true. because obama care and the bowles simpson panel completely off the table. medicare don't touch it. medicaid, do ent touch it. in fact, paul ryan did work with alice rivlin on something like proposed for medicare and left out of the final proposal. if you're going to tackle it, tackle it all at once, because, again, you have to worry about the setup, oh, tax reform and we do end up raising tax revenue, but then they end up not doing anything about the looming true monsters that are on the horizon for the country. >> neil: adam? >> neil, i think you put paul ryan on the hot seat and he adequately squirmed out of it. if you're in a boat and the boat is sinking and someone hands you a bucket, no, thank you, i don't need that bucket i'm trying to get the bucket

over here. you take the bucket and start bailing and work on the problem after that. >> neil: the fact that the president saw the bucket and just didn't even look at the bucket, but turned an i way from the bucket, is any less-- >> no, i totally agree, as critical of the president ignoring the advice he got from his own commission and critical of ryan not being willing to-- i wasn't interested in that deal. >> adam you're missing the bigger point. paul ryan came forward with his own plan, right? they voted against it, and the president forward again. that's called negotiation, you meet somewhere in the middle and meet someone on the other end to meet in the middle. are you telling me the president is willing it meet in the middle. >> with the negotiations like that, you have to respond to someone else. this is what i found, it's like-- >> and this is called politics, right? [laughter]. >> neil: e politics, and one side ideas and--

>> all right. anchors. ben stein, we have another, 1 1/2 trillion in debt. we've whistled past another graveyard. >> we are not going to be able to continuously get past the graveyard. it's a little more complicated than it seems so much of the did et is owned by the federal reserve they're never going to be demand to be paid, but reach the point where the foreign governments will demand exorbitant amounts to lend to us, i'm sorry to say, there's not enough to be done, we're going to have to raise taxes, and we're going to have to do it. >> why start with something that will prevent you from cutting. >> it's not going to be-- >> with all due respect, ben, the history of this country the last 20 years, or 30 years, trying to do deficit reduction is raising taxes and not doing the cutting on the other end.

why don't we try a different approach? why don't we try an approach and cut stuff and then maybe raise, at thats later? >> we can't cut. we can't cut. we can't cut. >> then we're might as well as go down in flames if we can't cut. >> raise taxes. >> neil: charles, one of the interesting things this week, the 47% romney thing and i go back and forth no matter who's nose got out of joint as a result of the comments picked up at a fundraiser. the 47% should stagger you, how we get 47% don't pay taxes. i take nothing away from those on social security, retirement. for whatever reason we're close to paying no federal income taxes today and yet, the only way to correct this, and i think that ben is it an earnest guy and earnestly reading the map of the land is well, we're going to have to hike taxes on the well-to-do or do something like that

because the spending cuts and-- so here we go on this group that we always hit up despite the fact that half aren't getting in at all. >> the spending cuts will never come to charles gasperino's point, they will never come as long as you keep adding money into the till. they spend every nickel in there and more. and until you stop giving them money and until you cut them off, then-- >> don't forget one other thing, when the market is putting this gun to your head, you will cut. >> may i point out that eight yooers ago, we are republicans were crowing about the fact that the number of people with no federal income tax burden on the number of people increased under the bush tax cuts. >> absolutely. >> and used that as a-- >> and started with ronald reagan, i'm being a bipartisan bastard to say we're now in a pickle that is beyond control. >> may i answer that though. as we're talking and flashing up the banners that mortgage rates hit a new record low on

30 year fixed rate mortgage. 3.4%, never seen it before e are we flashing the banner now or the one that neil didn't realize other anchors are getting paid. >> no-- and nothing will happen, debt and deficit, until the american people feel it. until it-- >> or until the next market crash. >> and by the way, there is a way we could correct out of this and it's called economic growth. it does help. i'm not saying it's-- >> neil, if i may. >> right. . >> go ahead. >> the 47% is a tax reform issue. it's not a deficit reduction issue. and simpson bowles was. >> i disagree, my friend. if you get more of those people saying, i'm not going to have to pay a lot. and 8 out of 10 americans are for all americans putting some skin in the game. so, don't think you've got to-- >> and we're probably as well, but you don't have to get on your liberal high horse about

that, but i'm saying the fact of the matter is it's out of control, that's all i'm saying, out of control. we're going to take a break and when we come back, it used to be that. >> i love that idea of watching someone become an activist, so many of the issues that are important to me, like want to get to my knees and thank them. >> anyway, even the star of the latest fox movie "won't back down", well, we'll be covering the upcoming presidential debates, and the president and vice-president, and this wednesday, colorado, hollywood stars are all over it and why not i'm covering it. continues on fox business network, and each night, 8 p.m. eastern time right through midnight, so. get fired up. >> you go crazy with your bad self. this isn't just about your money, it's about me. [laughter] >> just like the convention coverage, and we'll be

speaking with the power players, about the consequential economic election of our lives. other financial networks like to tell you most important economic election ever and that night, i've got to turn to them, too late. they're in 15 minute reruns and tupperware commercials. meanwhile, folks on main street may be feeling better, street may be feeling better, but their bosses are not. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. governor of getting it done. you know how to dance... with a deadline. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price.

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>> . >> neil: we'll call it a tale of two economies. there was confidence at the highest level we've seen since february and their bosses or appoint ceo's some of the largest companies in america, they're not feeling so rosie. ten out of seven expect hiring to be flatter, actually lower. and charlie gasperino, it's time to start? >> yes, i think that, again, i'm going it defend ben bernan bernanke. >> a shock. >> every time you say something-- >> i criticize him a lot. >> neil: i've never heard it. >> printing money and is necessary to prevent us from-- >> so you're worried and he's the only guy in the line of defense? >> you think there's somebody else? >> and mr. payne? is charlie going to bank on-- >> i'm sorry, i'm on to mr. payne. >> the ceo's-- the problem and they point specifically to the administration and listen, if

you think this first, this war on success, this war on business is bad right now, a second term in my mind will be devastating because i sincerely believe the administration is going to have after profits generated overseas before they're brought back and reach over and take those profits and put them into infrastructure bank and i think there notion of taxing and the notion that the publicly traded companies that their property belongs to the public domain, of course the ceo's, every one of them have to be frightened. you've got 38 jars out there. the epa running amok. the national labor relations board. of course they're afraid. did you see the economic data this week? and the manufacturing contract, and. >> i think the confident report has a lot-- >> no, i think that they're being brain washed. >> neil: i'm going to put you both down as a no on the president. and dagen, are those worries justified? >> absolutely. >> all right, i'm going to make it three. >> charles mentioned the economic numbers and durable goods orders, however you look at it were awful and down 13%

the last month. the second quarter was abysmal and a number-- housing still looks shaky, you name it, the ceo's worry about it. the health care costs, the health care law, and looming tax increases and congress actually-- >> and maybe you're seeing just that, and dan, to that point, do you see this double dip? do you see, as many ceo's seem to be saying at the very least, not a big reason to hire, not a big reason to expand. retrenchment, which generally smells recession? >> i don't know that we're going to have a double dip, but except in housing, could be extremely vigorous, but may be in a situation like we're in in the late 30's in which we have very, very slow economic progress, or none at all and we're just in a prolonged period of slowdown and i don't see what's going to end this. >> we should point out that housing is up in the countries, so far down, you

know. >> neil: for whatever reason, charlie, it's up. >> one dollar or two dollars. >> neil: adam, on this point i have another theory on this, you might or might not like, we got so used to crappy numbers when they're less crappy, i think we're grateful and i think we've had years of pathetic numbers and i think that when we see an up tick in housing as we've seen to ben's point, and not all of them, but pending home sales, most are up from some of their lows and we're off to the races when in reality, the overall sales numbers, existing new, no matter how you want to slice it are nothing where they should be at this stage of recovery and a fraction of where they were, even before the boom. what do you think of that? >> well, two things, neil, clearly true with regard to hu housing, when things get better, we feel better. and saw that with autos, too, not back to where we were with autos, but feels good when there's progress and the stock market was also doing well,

that makes-- >> better might be good enough for the president, right? if you feel better. you know these aren't good numbers, they're better numbers and you argue that better might be enough to bet him reelected. >> yes, and the ceo's might be bothering not the 18 other things that you-- they don't worry about taxes or anything like that, they don't worry about regulations and i talk to ceo's every day, they worry about taxes, regulation, they worry about central planning from a bunch of guys who quite frankly don't know how to do central planning very well. they do worry about that and that's why mitt romney-- they're really worried about the fiscal cliff. >> and living they're worried about everything. >> they've had for three years, but i do want to say going to the consumers as you mentioned-- savings have gone down dramatically. and people are living for now in the moment and said forget about the future. >> why say it if you're going

to get-- on it. >> and speaking of-- >> okay, on that note. >> and you've got to have later. low down payments on mortgages got us into a housing crisis. so, why is the forbes gang saying that's exactly what we need to bring housing back? that's what they're bringing up at the top of the hour. up next, they're getting beat up. blame it on a weak economy and high fuel costs, but the real reason may have you teeing off on the government. this happy couple used capital one venture miles for their "destination wedding." double miles you can "actually" use. but with those single mile travel cards...

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icht. >> neil: pay more and flying less. a new government report says they're on a weak economy and forget this, domestic air fares already have 17 different government taxes and fees and making up as much as 25% of each call. and ben stein, what do you make of that? >> unfortunately, they're going to get higher and higher and higher, and airlines are generally speaking not always losing money and higher prices. >> and they have to have the compliance talks and cancellation accommodation and you all of these things, more. >> charles. >> it's a crumby business and you know, you cut it for

flying, you're in trouble. >> if you have to pay more in this country, if you don't, don't fly. don't sit next to me in my mad angry-- >> it's about, by the way, the plan by one of the airlines, and behaving kids shall pushed back. if you're in row 16 you're not getting off the hook. adam, what do you make of all this. >> as a frequent flyer, and charlie and dagen said, i'm willing to pay for compliance and this is a terrible business, it's not a terrible business because of government deregulation, it's because it's a terrible business. >> dagen, is it that terrible? >> yes, it's a terrible business and-- you don't have a lot of pricing power, you have a lot of government regulation and it's controlled by the union workers, yea, an awful business. >> and with ben bernanke, maybe he can help us out. >> i think he's trying to

help. >> good. >> and unlike you and you're a hater. >> i'm a hater, i want to say, charlie, i want to thank dagen. up next, do you think that the market's had a pretty strong [ owner ] i need to expand to meet the needs of my growing business. but how am i going to fund it? and i have to find a way to manage my cash flow better. [ female announcer ] our wells fargo bankers are here to listen, offer guidance and provide you with options tailored to your business.

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>> neil: "triple stock play from charles. charles? >> joy global. next year's estimate, i love this play, it's a large macroplay on the global economy. ultimately will come back.

like it a lot. also like michael kors. this is the epit mal, a sweet spot. this goes much higher. goodyear tire, the average cars around the world are very old, already a year ahead of schedule. operating margins are exploding everywhere, except europe. i like this particularly for people with 401(k)s. >> charles, if you were recommending to me a high-end suit manufacturer, i'd say i'm all in, because i know you know all about that. i think stocks like michael kors are risky. >> i spend more at michael kors than my tailor. >> all right. >> what have you got? >> i first bought joy in 1962 when knives high school. it moves a lot -- a lot of fit's